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Anil Dash: “The NYT is now just Facebook. The platform dictates narrative to normies, is totally gamed by the right, and is still so ubiquitous as to be unavoidable even by those who see how broken it is.”

Discussion  16 comments

Christopher Jobson

I tend to visit the Guardian and The Atlantic before heading over to the Times these days, but would be super curious to hear what other news sources Kottke readers recommend.

Brady J. Frey

For general news, I read the NYTimes in the morning (daily newsletter and California newsletter, which gives me broad updates), WSJ (market and business news, and a lot of great details), the Economist (I like some articles are anonymous, others broad analysis), The Athletic for sports (recently purchased by the Times), and the SF Chronicle for local news.

Sometimes, I read BBC (they seem to break the news faster than most) and ProPublica (excellent in-depth journalism, which pairs well with the Atlantic for me). I still love my RSS feeds, which keep me up-to-date on all my niche news: from MacStories to CBR to The Verge.

One side comment about NYT: they have some good options for different languages and other countries, which seems to get missed. Their Chinese language site and app (simplified and traditional) come with cross-translations in English as a learning tool.

Brady J. Frey

Separate point, sometimes I use https://www.allsides.com – I like to see how different papers publish headlines and content on the same topic. Can be both disturbing and insightful.

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Colter Mccorkindale

I wonder to what degree this development has been based on inevitable Internet capitalism/content optimization techniques versus paid placements behind the scenes. At least Google & Facebook will tell you which results are ads, and they don't control what's on the other end of the link.

Gregsfamous

1. Posted to threads.net, which is literally facebook
2. Starts with "I need to write the whole piece about this, but..."

Come on.

Jason KottkeMOD

I've seen this comment on Mastodon and he did actually write "still so ubiquitous as to be unavoidable even by those who see how broken it is" β€” the problem he identified is that FB & the Times are both problematic yet unavoidable. He also posted it to Bluesky but I saw it on Threads first.

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Bob Clewell

Folks on both the left and the right complain about stories and opinion pieces in the New York Times, which tells me, they must be doing something right.

Robb Monn

I worked there for 22 years. They are certainly doing something right because they survived the destruction of the local/regional/city newspaper. In my view they are not doing the "report the news" thing right and arguably never have. My perspective? The right's protests against their coverage are generally posture and almost comically cynical. The left's protests are generally not cynical and are well-founded. Look at coverage of trans issues, the middle east, and a million other things the whole way back to their non-reportage on the bombing of Cambodia (while their lead Vietnam correspondant was fostering a life-long friendship with Kissinger and his wife of all things...)

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Rex Sorgatz

Prologue: I truly don't mean to diminish criticism, because something that holds such power in our society deserves scrutiny, and I happen to enjoy delivering said scrutiny on occasion too. (Who among us?) But specifically to his normie accusation...

NYT publishes over a thousands pieces of content every day. The vast majority of which, yes, is for normies. And maybe should be? (Yeah?)

Meanwhile, it also produces material every day that drives policy change like nothing else in our culture does: https://www.nytimes.com/section/climate

But here's the real dope... Almost no one in our society loves the Times. People who work there often don't love it. Is that because there's a problem with the Times? Maybe. Or maybe it's simply a predicament of our media-saturated culture. NYT is one of the last cultural assets left trying to be lots of things to lots of people. What an impossible task.

Would I like Anil's version of NYT more? Interesting question. I don't know. But I do know that publication would be far far smaller. And would a smaller / less influential NYT be good or bad for society? Another interesting question. I don't know.

Jason Shure

I love this thoughtful comment, beyond a mere thumbs up, which this comment section doesn't offer anyway.

Robert Dodson

I don't really understand what Anil is saying. It looks like he's saying something silly or outrageous to get attention. I fail to see how NYT and FB are alike because they are similarly so broken. And "normies"? You mean smart people? Sheesh, where does Anil get his news?

Jasper Nighthawk

For anyone in this comments section interested in a more fleshed-out take on how the NYT is "totally gamed by the right"β€”and also how hard it is to criticize the ubiquitous and mostly boring Timesβ€”this recent David Roth essay on Defector might be a useful place to start.

Jim Renaud

This is a good piece by Roth. However, the whole time, I thought, "What would David LEE Roth think?"

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Trent Seigfried

It's hard for me to take any argument seriously when it includes a non-ironic use of the word "normies."

Tracy M

I totally agree. His statement feels like a hot take to get engagement, which is maybe what he also accusing the NYTimes of? It feels like punching down, insulting people that read the Times - and punching down just makes me dismiss whatever actual point someone may be trying to make.

Jason KottkeMOD

I am not 100% certain, but knowing Anil (he's not a puncher-downer), I'm pretty sure in this case he's using the rhetorical technique of adopting, briefly, the POV of his critical subjects. So when he says "dictates narrative to normies", he's implying that that's the way Facebook and the NY Times (cynically) view their missions. It's not the most clear technique β€” I use it sometimes and get called out for it β€” but it can be effective, especially when trying to keep your social media messages under 280 chars.

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